Rabies vs loss of fear of humans

[pawzaddict]

I went camping this weekend for the 4th up in the White Mountains, AZ and last night we were sitting around the campfire, 5 of us, talking and laughing and drinking and had 2 lanterns around us as well and no joke a raccoon suddenly appeared within 10 feet of us....It was weird because of all the light and noise that was going on at the time. It didn't run when we became aware of it and hollered. It just somewhat hunched up and looked a bit scared and confused.....it took one of the guys throwing an empty soda can at it to get it to run off...within 15 mins it came back, a bit further away, but did the same thing when the guys approached it....does this sound more like rabies than a loss of fear? or even just another illness? my aunt who lives up in the mountains says that is not normal and something had to be wrong with it.

[Bear]

Its very common for raccoons to "hang out" for the possibility of food from humans, especially camping. Plenty of people feed raccoons any chance they get, then people in your situation get the trouble from them. They are opportunists getting food when and where they can. The raccoons here will be out at 7am, noon or 3 depending on what food is around. Being out in the day time does not necessarily mean they have rabies, like stated its very common.

If your raccoon had full blown rabies he would not have gone away ,he would have most likely attacked. Read Missdoolittle"s article if you haven't already ,its very good. Sounds like normal raccoon behavior especially at night, but then I wasn't there, wish I was though lol

The beaches here are full of raccoons raiding beach bags in broad daylight.

[pawzaddict]

Its very common for raccoons to "hang out" for the possibility of food from humans, especially camping. Plenty of people feed raccoons any chance they get, then people in your situation get the trouble from them. They are opportunists getting food when and where they can. The raccoons here will be out at 7am, noon or 3 depending on what food is around. Being out in the day time does not necessarily mean they have rabies, like stated its very common.

If your raccoon had full blown rabies he would not have gone away ,he would have most likely attacked. Read Missdoolittle"s article if you haven't already ,its very good. Sounds like normal raccoon behavior but then I wasn't there, wish I was though lol

The beaches here are full of raccoons raiding beach bags in broad daylight.

My aunt was scared when we told her the story this morning, she has never heard of a raccoon coming that close to people being very loud. I looked up rabies in raccoons and what I read said it is common for the calm disposition of rabies in raccoons and they seem confused and dazed, which this one did. He did not look like the raccoons I am use to seeing it was really creepy and sad. He looked disoriented hopefully it wasn't rabies...

[Bear]

My aunt was scared when we told her the story this morning, she has never heard of a raccoon coming that close to people being very loud. I looked up rabies in raccoons and what I read said it is common for the calm disposition of rabies in raccoons and they seem confused and dazed, which this one did. He did not look like the raccoons I am use to seeing it was really creepy and sad. He looked disoriented hopefully it wasn't rabies...

Could have been I reckon, sounds scary

[pawzaddict]

Could have been I reckon, sounds scary

It was very sad...who knows if he was just old and ill...it was a HUGE one too. I used to live up in Heber/Overguard in the white mountains and there were raccoons that would freeze then run away when you came up on them....never seen such a disoriented one. I hope it was not a poison or anything :(

[Bear]

It was very sad...who knows if he was just old and ill...it was a HUGE one too. I used to live up in Heber/Overguard in the white mountains and there were raccoons that would freeze then run away when you came up on them....never seen such a disoriented one. I hope it was not a poison or anything :(

thats what people do here all the time, I had a lady ask me how to poison armadillos or could she pure gas down the hole.

[pawzaddict]

thats what people do here all the time, I had a lady ask me how to poison armadillos or could she pure gas down the hole.

Its heartless. I am not one against hunting I have to be honest because it is a helpful way to control population but I do not agree with just shooting something and leaving it, poisoning it, purposely injuring it for the heck of it, etc etc. Unfortunately uneducated people are the ones who do things in the most horrific ways. I do not know much about armadillos..what damage do these animals cause to make people want to poison them?

[Bear]

Its heartless. I am not one against hunting I have to be honest because it is a helpful way to control population but I do not agree with just shooting something and leaving it, poisoning it, purposely injuring it for the heck of it, etc etc. Unfortunately uneducated people are the ones who do things in the most horrific ways. I do not know much about armadillos..what damage do these animals cause to make people want to poison them?

Me too, I eat meat but I am respectful of the animal.

The only thing armadillos do is dig little dibbits in lawns looking for food. And for some people a perfect lawn in their goal in life. The lady that called me was very wealthy and VERY scary when I talked to her lol. She reminded me of Cruela Deville=exactly. Ive seen THE most horrific things that people have done to animals, it really makes me embarrassed to be a human.

Also we have Gopher tortoises here and they are protected. They are very cool turtles and have very little fear. They have one weed in particular they love to eat. They are always on a mission to find it, they are so funny because they will walk right over your feet as if saying "pardon me ,pardon me, looking for food looking for food". But most horse people hate them because horses will fall in their holes and hurt or break thier legs. I know so many idiots that kill as many as they see.

[MissDolittle]

Oh man...I have a few things to say, let me start with the last posts first.

I'm not even going to comment on the gas pouring to get rid of armadillos bit, ya'll know me good enough by now that to guess what I'd say.

Now, "'hunting in order to control population". If there indeed still is an overpopulation of any kind, then it is because we are taking their habitat away.

So because man takes the land away from the animals it's ok to shoot them because there is an overpopulation? My answer to that is NO. That reason or excuse does not fly with me anymore.

I have not not met ONE hunter that kills in order to eat or "help the overpopulation". They all do/did it because they are having FUN.

As to the coon...they only become nocturnal at the age of about 1 year old. Until then they are outside during the day, mostly with mom around too.

There's one perfectly normal reason to see adult coons outside during the day.

How many coons have you seen up close to determine if he was confused or maybe just raised by a person and wanted food? Which could be another reason why appeared tame.

If it was rabies, it had to be in the beginning stages of infecting the brain, because a thrown soda can would not have scared it off.

Yes, poison is another possibility. Lots of people put anti-freeze out to "get rid of unwanted pests".

Of course it could have been rabies. Distemper shows almost the exact same symptoms too. Here a raccoon can pretty much only get rabies when bitten by a skunk.

In any case, it was a good move to chase the animal off and not give in and encourage it stay by throwing food at it. It's never wrong to be cautious!

Just for the record, please read that rabies article Bear pointed out (thanks!) here, since you and obviously your aunt still believe in some of the most common misconceptions:

http://rainbowwildlife.com/news/rabies-article.html

and here is a shorter and a bit simpler version:

http://rainbowwildlife.com/news/short-rabies-article.html

I see that I too didn't go into the "seeing a coon at daylight spells rabies" myth, grmpf. Next time! :smile29:

[Bear]

Now, "'hunting in order to control population". If there indeed still is an overpopulation of any kind, then it is because we are taking their habitat away.

So because man takes the land away from the animals it's ok to shoot them because there is an overpopulation? My answer to that is NO. That reason or excuse does not fly with me anymore.

I have not not met ONE hunter that kills in order to eat or "help the overpopulation". They all do/did it because they are having FUN.

I dont hunt anymore I stopped at 18-19, the reason I hunted was because thats what men do ...right!?! lol. Well Im man enough to admit I dont NEED to kill. However if I needed to survive , then of course I would.

Part of my job in the winter is to work the hunting check in stations, I check for licenses and such. Some of the guys are DIRT poor and I know they are getting meat to supply them till next season.

But, ALLOT are kinda scary and are serial killer material imo. They love to kill...anything, just kill , some will not even keep the kills. Allot are very wealthy or at least well to do and have the latest greatest equipment and they are fat.

They bait the deer to come to them being the real sportsman they are.

Deer are overpopulated, yes we keep mowing down all the land...but. Another reason is...what was the biggest predator of deer?....come on...wait for it...wait for it.....mountain lion, then the wolf.

So what did they do, they had cattle drives, sheep herds, livestock, easy cougar food. So they killed them and almost all of them. In many areas deer have little or no predators to keep them in check.

Now we CWD (chronic wasting disease) killing deer

[MissDolittle]

I'd never say anything to a guy who needs the food! But we both know that's not the majority.

The worst I find is when they take their kids along. Sometimes as young as 5 years old. Just recently they had a picture of 13 year old on the front page of our paper holding proudly 2 coyotes he had shot with bow and arrow.

Or the neighbor who took a baseball bat to the maybe 8 weeks old raccoon right in front of my eyes and beat it to death in front of his then 9 year old son, claiming it had distemper because it was out in the day light.

That same son, now 5 years later looks at me totally puzzled when I told him I'm raising orphaned raccoons. To him that's like raising mosquitoes!

I know a guy who loves to gross me out with his hunting stories. He thinks I'm supposed to find it funny when he tells me how he cut that hog apart with a chain saw, the same one he was holding cutting down my trees. Dried blood still on it.

Just now over the police scanner - Animal Control: "The dog just jumped out of the bed of a pickup, the owners are going to tie him in." Pfffft.

The deer situation...it really doesn't matter what the cause or situation or why and how, the deer is the loser in the end because of humans, that's the sad fact.

By the way, I had already bought 12 acres and had funding to construct a 12 ft chain link fence around and working on the paperwork to make this a wolf sanctuary. It was way out in the country, no neighbors for a mile, it'd be perfect.

Wolves would be my #1 choice to rehab, if I had a choice. I worked with a pack before and it's just where my heart felt most alive.

But that real estate deal fell through, well no we were screwed actually, it ended in court and the broker pulled a bankruptcy on us and we lost 25 000 dollars. We are still recovering from that 7 years later...gosh, I could have built quite a rescue for that kind of money right here.

[Bear]

I'd never say anything to a guy who needs the food! But we both know that's not the majority.

The worst I find is when they take their kids along. Sometimes as young as 5 years old. Just recently they had a picture of 13 year old on the front page of our paper holding proudly 2 coyotes he had shot with bow and arrow.

Or the neighbor who took a baseball bat to the maybe 8 weeks old raccoon right in front of my eyes and beat it to death in front of his then 9 year old son, claiming it had distemper because it was out in the day light.

That same son, now 5 years later looks at me totally puzzled when I told him I'm raising orphaned raccoons. To him that's like raising mosquitoes!

I know a guy who loves to gross me out with his hunting stories. He thinks I'm supposed to find it funny when he tells me how he cut that hog apart with a chain saw, the same one he was holding cutting down my trees. Dried blood still on it.

Just now over the police scanner - Animal Control: "The dog just jumped out of the bed of a pickup, the owners are going to tie him in." Pfffft.

The deer situation...it really doesn't matter what the cause or situation or why and how, the deer is the loser in the end because of humans, that's the sad fact.

By the way, I had already bought 12 acres and had funding to construct a 12 ft chain link fence around and working on the paperwork to make this a wolf sanctuary. It was way out in the country, no neighbors for a mile, it'd be perfect.

Wolves would be my #1 choice to rehab, if I had a choice. I worked with a pack before and it's just where my heart felt most alive.

But that real estate deal fell through, well no we were screwed actually, it ended in court and the broker pulled a bankruptcy on us and we lost 25 000 dollars. We are still recovering from that 7 years later...gosh, I could have built quite a rescue for that kind of money right here.

Dang, yep a friend gave me some photos of the Druid peak pack in Yellowstone =beautiful stuff

[pawzaddict]

Oh man...I have a few things to say, let me start with the last posts first.

I'm not even going to comment on the gas pouring to get rid of armadillos bit, ya'll know me good enough by now that to guess what I'd say.

Now, "'hunting in order to control population". If there indeed still is an overpopulation of any kind, then it is because we are taking their habitat away.

So because man takes the land away from the animals it's ok to shoot them because there is an overpopulation? My answer to that is NO. That reason or excuse does not fly with me anymore.

I have not not met ONE hunter that kills in order to eat or "help the overpopulation". They all do/did it because they are having FUN.

As to the coon...they only become nocturnal at the age of about 1 year old. Until then they are outside during the day, mostly with mom around too.

There's one perfectly normal reason to see adult coons outside during the day.

How many coons have you seen up close to determine if he was confused or maybe just raised by a person and wanted food? Which could be another reason why appeared tame.

If it was rabies, it had to be in the beginning stages of infecting the brain, because a thrown soda can would not have scared it off.

Yes, poison is another possibility. Lots of people put anti-freeze out to "get rid of unwanted pests".

Of course it could have been rabies. Distemper shows almost the exact same symptoms too. Here a raccoon can pretty much only get rabies when bitten by a skunk.

In any case, it was a good move to chase the animal off and not give in and encourage it stay by throwing food at it. It's never wrong to be cautious!

Just for the record, please read that rabies article Bear pointed out (thanks!) here, since you and obviously your aunt still believe in some of the most common misconceptions:

http://rainbowwildlife.com/news/rabies-article.html

and here is a shorter and a bit simpler version:

http://rainbowwildlife.com/news/short-rabies-article.html

I see that I too didn't go into the "seeing a coon at daylight spells rabies" myth, grmpf. Next time! :smile29:

K there is a misconception here...it was NOT daylight it was 12 midnight. It came up about 5-10 feet from us at a campfire while hollering and being drunk.... My aunt lives up there and has never had a coon come that close and act the way we described so I would rather call it experience not misconception. I understand your feelings about hunting but the problem is, we have taken their land and it wont ever stop so control has to be done. My aunt and uncle hunt because they prefer the meat over farm raised hormone fed cattle. I think hunting is a topic that some people are totally for and some totally against. I did read that distemper and rabies can show similar signs. This coon was by no means showing the same demeanor I am used to with them...I lived in the mountains and they were very common and not once did one NOT run off when I came close...I saw plenty of raccoons during the daytime and plenty at night. My experience was just not normal and it scared and confused me when he looked out of it.

[MissDolittle]

Let me clear something up first:

I'm not trying to talk you out of being concerned here, I'm just throwing some information around that should be considered before making a judgment call, even though we'll probably never know if there was something wrong with the animal or not. All we can do is speculate. I"m also not trying to undermine your aunt's experience with raccoons or am saying that your concerns are invalid.

Having said that, have you checked your county's statistics to see if you have confirmed cases of rabies in raccoons in your area? Or any confirmed cases at all? There might be an outbreak for all we know.

[Bear]

Ive seen more coons with distemper than rabies . We are really having a problem with it. Well it made for a memoral camping trip for ya for sure.

[pawzaddict]

Let me clear something up first:

I'm not trying to talk you out of being concerned here, I'm just throwing some information around that should be considered before making a judgment call, even though we'll probably never know if there was something wrong with the animal or not. All we can do is speculate. I"m also not trying to undermine your aunt's experience with raccoons or am saying that your concerns are invalid.

Having said that, have you checked your county's statistics to see if you have confirmed cases of rabies in raccoons in your area? Or any confirmed cases at all? There might be an outbreak for all we know.

No that is a great idea tho! This is not where I live lol but up in the high altitude mountains. I asked my aunt and she said yes rabies is pretty bad up there, but neither of us were sure if it was in raccoons or just skunks. Definitely will check out the statistics. I just felt real bad for the poor thing. :( I hope he is ok

[MissDolittle]

Ive seen more coons with distemper than rabies . We are really having a problem with it. Well it made for a memoral camping trip for ya for sure.

I can imagine, considering how long distemper virus can survive outside of the body (months) compared to the rabies virus, which dies within 24 hours in an infected animal. I'm not sure how long it'll stay alive in saliva left behind on a bowl of water for example...ha! Back to research LOL.