Utter crap....

[Saviah Wildlife]

This was posted at a site of the makers of my forum software where I'm also active.


The dangerous dog act of 1991 makes it illegal to own several breeds of dogs in the UK without exception from the courts. These dogs are Pitbulls (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pit_bull), Tosas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tosa_%28dog%29), Fila Brasileiros (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fila_Brasileiro) and Dogo Argentinos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogo_Argentino).

With 2 attacks by Rottweilers on young children (5 months and 2 years) in the last few days (the first resulting in the death of the child), is it time to consider tougher legislations to regulate owning and breeding of Rottweilers, possibly resulting in them also being banned?

[MissDolittle]

If it was for me, everybody who wants to own a dog needs to go to a class
and earn a permit! Just leave those dogs alone, it's not their fault!

[Saviah Wildlife]

I'm in an intense debate with this, and found myself quoting Cesar from his site on the subject.

[Saviah Wildlife]

Should I post the whole debate if I am able to?

[MissDolittle]

Sure!

[Saviah Wildlife]

Bah I can't, when I download the whole topic it goes to html and I don't think that would look good here PLUS I don't think you have HTML enabled.

Here's the topic link, and guests can view it. http://forums.invisionpower.com/index.php?showtopic=227463

[oldcrow61]

I think, in a good many cases it's the owner who is at fault and not the dog. I've seen some of these dogs and found them to be very gentle. Unfortunately the whole breed gets a bad rap when something bad happens.

[MissDolittle]

I couldn't read it all, got me too angry. All I know is that there is no dog in
the world that's born mean and that can't be raised into a sweet loving dog.

Some dogs are bigger, some dogs are stronger and if trained wrong, yes,
they are more dangerous..that's why I like the mandatory dog owner
classes.

Education is the key!!! Number one reason why I have all these websites
and this forum. People learn best when they are in the situation where they
need help, right?

[Saviah Wildlife]

I couldn't read it all, got me too angry. All I know is that there is no dog in
the world that's born mean and that can't be raised into a sweet loving dog.

Some dogs are bigger, some dogs are stronger and if trained wrong, yes,
they are more dangerous..that's why I like the mandatory dog owner
classes.

Education is the key!!! Number one reason why I have all these websites
and this forum. People learn best when they are in the situation where they
need help, right?

Well I clarified quite a bit in the thread, I mentioned how some breeds are "stronger" but not violent, I mentioned how rotts are generally bred to be attack dogs but they don't have to be.

I think I figured out how to paste, I will have to remove the quotes though so it'll be difficult to know who's responding to whom.

[MissDolittle]

Talking about Rottweilers:

4 years ago the shelter got a 220 lbs Rottie. The owner was a drug dealer
and was arrested. The dog was trained to attack everybody that wore a uniform.
I think if we would have let him, Marshall would have torn the cops apart.

However, he was the best around kids! One lady who works at the shelter
had a 3 year old son at that time and those 2 bonded. She ended up adopting
Marshall and he lived with her until a couple of months ago. His arthritis got
so bad that he had to be euthanized.

But this story shows clearly that it is the training and not the dog.

Here's a lil flash movie of Marshall and the other dogs the lady adopted,
including Zeuss, the German Shepherd:

http://www.amazes.us/album/displayimage.php?album=39&pos=0

[Saviah Wildlife]

It makes me log in, can't view it.

[MissDolittle]

Oops sorry..I had to make that album register only..even there the
spammers had a hayday :x .

Try this..it might take a bit to load, I didn't put a pre-loader in it:

http://www.amazes.us/pics/marshall.html

[Saviah Wildlife]

Wow he was adorable, loved the little dogs and that shep too!

[WingedCat]

I'm probably going to get rotten dog food thrown at me but....

I do believe there is a good case for some breeds having problems when the breeders are doing to much imbreeding. The reason I say this is from taking to responsible breeders about the different times certain breeds seemed to suddenly become more unstable. The instability seemed to disappear as soon as the irresponsible breeders quit doing so much imbreeding.

*ducking behind the couch* LOL

[MissDolittle]

Weeeeeeeeeeeell *looks for dogfood to throw* :laughter .

I've seen 10th generation fighting dogs sweet as a dog can be. But
eventually the genes will get the imprint and then we have some natural
born killers on our hands..and still it's the owner's fault. Current or
previous doesn't matter to me. But it's the dogs, probably entire breeds
that are getting the blame and are being put down..it's like that in lot of
places already.

Us damn humans have to mess everything up!

[WingedCat]

Us damn humans have to mess everything up!

Sadly, this is the truth.

[WijitingBoo]

This isn't about a rott.. but...

I was walking home from a class one afternoon and saw this older gentleman sitting on a bench with a HUGE akita sitting on the bench with him. Beautiful dog.

Me being who I am, went up and asked if I could pet him. The guy said sure and I asked where he got him.

(the dog is now leaning into the ear scratches tongue lolling)

The story was... this used to be a show dog, actually won a few best in shows at a regional level or something like that. Then one day the dog bit the owner's child. Just up out of the blue (according to the owner). So they brought him to a shelter and asked to have him put down. Fortunately, the shelter saw how sweet he really was and asked if they could try to "rehab" him (basically just trying to get the owner not to put him down). The owners said sure but they never wanted to see the dog again. The shelter did no rehab, just let the dog be himself and he never growled, never bit anyone. The guy had seen him at this shelter and bought him almost immediately. When I had met them (on that bench) he had had him for 6 years and never once had any trouble.

All I could think was, someone must have done something to instigate the bite. I mean seriously, a one time offense, out of the blue, and they want to put him down? I think that is a load of crap.

He was just a beautiful friendly giant.

[MissDolittle]

Wow, what a nice story! I agree, something instigated the bite behavior.
My cousin was bit by a poodle when he was 6 years old. The poodle had
an ear infection and my cousin was playing with the ears. The dog never
bit anybody ever again after that, so I suppose it was a reaction to pain.

[Saviah Wildlife]

That is a great story.

Makes you think too with kids saying they were bit. There are different types of bites and then there are kids to freaked out they think a nail scratch is a bite :x

[SnyperKat]

I didn't finish the thread either, but mostly because I got sidetracked by the Rottweiler's Love video. >.> And that created a while chain reaction of me searching for vids like that one.

~sigh~ I find it insane that humans insist on trying to ban the breed instead of accepting their own mistakes. I was talking to my mom about the problem, and about the videos I saw. Even my mother, who is very afraid of any of the 'tough-looking' dogs (she got bit by a Doberman in the face as a kid), knows that they aren't naturally vicious and blames bad owners.
One time, while driving with my dad, she saw a couple forcing a rottweiler to go down a slide even though the dog was scared and was getting hurt. She got out of the car and promptly yelled at them. Go mom! :D

[MissDolittle]

When one of my dog is scared, I confront their fears immediately, because
99% of dogbites happen because the dog is scared or insecure. Of course I
won't hurt them, but I won't let them be afraid either.

Example:

A plastic bag was flying in the air because it was so windy. My Dane was
totally freaking out, tail between his legs and looking desperately for a
place to hide. I took him by the collar and dragged him to where the bag
was, by now stuck in the fence. Once he figured out that it was just a bag,
I encouraged him to play with it.

Then there was the garbage pickup truck. It makes this beeping noise when
it backs up. OMG that dog was scared to death of that truck! So each time
the truck turned our corner, I sat the dog down by the curb and kept
correcting him until he lost that fear. Took me 3 times.

The most common reaction of us humans is to comfort the dog and tell
him that there is no reason to be afraid. And that's exactly the wrong thing
to do, because giving him affection would simply nurture that behavior,
because it tells him it's good to be scared.

I'm not saying that that happened to the dog your mom saw, just saying
sometimes it looks cruel and the dog looks as if he is abused because he
ducks all the time, but that's what we want. The ducking is showing
submission just as they would do with their pack leader in the wild. :)

[SnyperKat]

Hm, you bring up a good point. :) But I don't think she did the wrong thing, even if it may have been a misunderstanding. For all we know, the dog could have been getting hurt. Personally though, I wouldn't be shoving my dog down a slide. >_o

[MissDolittle]

Na, me neither. I have some agility equipment here, but neither my dogs nor
I were having much fun. We rather go for long walks and play "follow the
leader", which gives confidence to the dog and is a great bonding experience.

I remember the time when my dogs dragged me all over the place and I was
following them as a leader. Now it's vice versa and my arms are still in their
sockets lol. Thank you Dog Whisperer!

[Saviah Wildlife]

I didn't finish the thread either, but mostly because I got sidetracked by the Rottweiler's Love video. >.> And that created a while chain reaction of me searching for vids like that one.

~sigh~ I find it insane that humans insist on trying to ban the breed instead of accepting their own mistakes. I was talking to my mom about the problem, and about the videos I saw. Even my mother, who is very afraid of any of the 'tough-looking' dogs (she got bit by a Doberman in the face as a kid), knows that they aren't naturally vicious and blames bad owners.
One time, while driving with my dad, she saw a couple forcing a rottweiler to go down a slide even though the dog was scared and was getting hurt. She got out of the car and promptly yelled at them. Go mom! :D

Actually a dog can be taught to go down a slide, although I doubt they were doing it right. Chances are though once you get them to try it they won't like it, but I've seen a dog that was taught to go down the slide and then on his OWN went down them for no reason lol

I never mentioned how I got my dog to swim did I?

This summer we were taking a walk at the park, they have a huge man-made lake there with swimming, boating (no motors, just saild and row boats). Well we're in our shorts and we have Kasper. So I say, 'hey it's hot, lets wade in the water' and I eased Kasper in with us, sure enough he loves to swim now!

[MissDolittle]

Great about the swimming! As long as the first time is a positive experience,
they usually like anything. And so do I lol:

http://www.amazes.us/album/albums/userpics/10001/kiss.jpg

http://www.amazes.us/album/albums/userpics/10001/normal_stick.jpg

[Saviah Wildlife]

Awww, yeah that looks like FUN!

[BlueStar]

Different breeds do hold different temperments, etc. Some breeds are more passive than others and some dogs are natural born hunters/killers. Most dog attacks come from mistreated dogs, dogs trained to attack or dogs teased, hurt by others or those feeling they are protecting their owners or not recognizing them.

FYI I have seen one dog that had a mean streak from birth, though it was revived at birth and oxygen being deprived from the brain probably caused the mean, uncontrollable outbursts. She was a runt Yorkie that I kept throughout her life.

Yes most of the time the fault of a dog attack can be placed on the way it was raised, cared for, etc. Kids tease dogs through fences/at the end of a tie and thus if they ever get out there is no telling what they might do. Old dogs get grumpy or startle easier. Pups are dumb and may just be trying to play when trying to catch a leg on a bike.

Saying some breeds are apt to be more aggressive than others seems plausible since some breeds are worse about being hunters than others are even if they are not taught to hunt, instinct runs thick. And just as inbreeding affects human minds (for the worse) I also believe it does on animals minds. I have never seen one so-called aggressive breed be an aggressive dog since they had good, loving homes though, even when they were shy strays and where approached properly.

The only breed that is responsible for dog attacks is the human breed 99% of the time with ignorance not being a viable excuse since if a child was treated the same way the dog was it would not be a viable excuse. I allot 1% for medical reasons, having a bad day, or just deciding enough Mr. Nice guy for all other unexplained attacks LOL.

[MissDolittle]

I mostly agree!

Different breeds have different energy levels. Usually high energy dogs
tend to turn aggressive if they don't get a chance to release that energy
because they are tied up in the yard all the time.

That's the best recipe to make them insecure and once they get a chance,
it happens.

And then of course there are the dogs that are mistreated or trained to fight.
They are bred and the genetics is being passed on through generations and
there will a horrible price to pay for those breeds, mostly pitbulls.

We have quite a few in the neighborhood here that are always locked up in
their yard, never get out, never get to see or smell anything different. I
would be scared if one of them got out.

If it was for me, everybody who owns a dog needs to go to a 3 hours
seminar or something and have to take a test in order to have a dog
license! For ALL breeds!

But of course there will never be enough officers to follow up on it and
enforce the law. Our 2 animal control officers have their hands full year
around already. And what a great job they do!